Algorithmic Trading Review

Algorithmic Trading Company
  • Honest
  • Quality
  • Cost
  • Support
  • Verified Trades
  • User Experience

Summary

An excellent, top tier systematic trading company. My most researched and thoroughly documented review to date. A tremendous amount of mental horsepower has gone into these trading algorithms. A very smart developer with high level engineering, math, and programming skills that is offering a true high level performance product. Proven track record. A level of honesty and candor, that in a trading vendor, I had not thought possible. Highly recommended. Excellent customer support.

4.7
Pros: Completely open and honest trading vendor. Trading algorithms designed by an engineer with high level experience in the design and implementation of real world industrial algorithms. All algorithms have proven track records from verified brokerage statements. Vendor cares about his customers.
Cons: Not cheap. The recommended account minimum is $17k and the price of algo's come with a yearly maintenance fee. Contact vendor for pricing.

Today’s review is a trading system vendor named AlgorithmicTrading.Net and MyStockTradingBiz.com. Both websites display nearly identical information. The business is owned and operated by Rich Metzger. The official address for the business is 702 W Idaho Street, Suite 1100, Boise Idaho, 83702. I can confirm the address as a location for executive suites and virtual offices. An actual address is pretty refreshing, even if its only a virtual office. Over the past few months of writing reviews, I have found that the majority of addresses listed by trading vendors are bogus. Some examples would be a vacant lot in Houston, a wedding dress shop in Oklahoma, an actual church in Phoenix Arizona, a swampy field in Michigan, a trailer park in Florida, and a high school. I also found it refreshing that Rich has an answering service for the toll free phone number. The vast majority of trading vendors just default to voice mail, and getting a return phone call is tantamount to getting a wisdom tooth pulled. I made several phone calls to the toll free number, all calls were answered or quickly returned by Mike Webber, the director of sales.

Before I get into the nuts and bolts of what this company is offering, I wanted to take a moment to highlight some blaring irregularities. Anomalies. Weird sightings. Things that you just dont see too often in the trading world. As a matter of fact, I have seen some things with this company that I have never witnessed before. Sort of like seeing bigfoot, a jackalope, a chupacabra, or a fully constructed chicken coop in the middle of my local Costco.

Blaring Weird Sighting Number One

The first thing that I saw on both sites was an official stamp and a link to the Better Business Bureau. I have looked at hundreds of trading products, and this just looked fascinating to me.

BBB Graphic for Algorithmic Trading

This really piqued my interest. I see Better Business Bureau listings for roofing contractors, plumbers, electricians, etc. But I had never seen anyone with a trading product attempt to establish credibility with the BBB. Truthfully, I have known a few building contractors and they all hate the BBB because the BBB always sides with the consumer. The person with the negative BBB review is usually forced into some sort of monetary settlement with the disgruntled party because a negative BBB rating is the kiss of death, at least for a building contractor. The BBB is a consumer advocacy, meaning the consumer’s argument is usually all that matters, right or wrong. Within the context of a trading product, especially a product where the consumer is guaranteed to lose money at some point (all systems lose money at some point), I felt like this was an extremely risky move on the part of Rich Metzger. There is basically no upside to putting the BBB sticker on your website.

And in addition to the BBB being a nearly guaranteed lose/lose proposition to any trading vendor, I also noticed that AlgorithmicTrading.net/MyStockTradingBiz.com are an Accredited Business. What does this mean? This means that Rich Metzger had to fill out a bunch of forms and answer a bunch of questions about who they are and what they are offering. What are those forms and questions? I was curious myself, and so I called my local Better Business Bureau chapter located in San Diego, Ca. I asked them what I have to do get accredited. I was interviewed on the phone, and then sent a bunch of forms to fill out. I felt like I was filling out the intake forms that need to be filled out whenever a person attends a brand new physician. I felt a bit violated. But I filled out my forms, acting as if I had a trading system to sell to the public.

A day later, I get a phone call from an “intake specialist” from the BBB. He had reviewed my forms and explained to me that the Better Business Bureau is a consumer advocacy group, blah blah blah. In a nutshell, if I get any complaints then I will be forced into answering the complaints and that a counselor would be assigned to any disputes and that the counselor would try and find a resolution for both parties. Immediately I am thing to myself, what if my trading system turns to shit and bunch of people start losing money? I am going to have to deal with some counselor that is going to want me to refund money? This is a risky bet for any trading vendor. And to make matters worse, the Better Business Bureau wanted to charge me $800 dollars as intake fee, and $500 each year, just to put that sticker on my site.

As I thought about this whole BBB accreditation, I could not help but think that the guy selling this trading system is really making an honest attempt at being honest. You can review the Better Business Bureau file here. There are 9 positive reviews, and one resolved complaint. I would consider these reviews to be very accurate. The Better Business Bureau is an entirely different animal than the fake review bullshit that can be found at Investimonials or random social media. A lot of you reading maybe thinking, “hey Emmett, quit blathering on about the BBB”. But you know what? Its kind of a big deal folks. The guy running this AlgorithmicTrading.Net company actually paid money and went through the intake process at the BBB, and if his system turns to crap and a bunch of folks start losing money, then you know for a fact that the BBB is going to come back and haunt him.

Blaring Weird Sighting Number Two

With all trading system vendors, they all love to display back tested results. If you know anything about back tested results for trading systems, then you already know that back tested results are as useless as second hand toilet paper. In fact, every time I view a page on a vendor that shows back tested results for a trading system, the contents within my stomach begin to curdle. They are vomit inducing. If they are not to you, then you have not spent enough time reviewing trading products. Back tested trading results mean nothing, the only thing that matters is actual results. The kind of results that can be shown and listed on a brokerage statement. Actual statements are the meat and potatoes that we want. Back tested results are puffery. Sure, they give us an idea of what to expect going forward, however all vendors pluck out the smoothest and prettiest of the results. In other words, the bride you are marrying is not the same bride that shows up later to consummate the marriage.

So lets jump to Blaring Weird Sighting Number Two…brokerage statements. You can clearly see on these pages that we are looking at brokerage statements from Trade Station. Admittedly, the entire year of 2014, for both clients that submitted brokerage statements is highly, highly impressive. Of course, both clients did add units aggressively throughout the year, but we cannot argue with these results. I would love to have these types of returns.

But are these brokerage account statements real? Or are they doctored nonsense, a creation of a clever graphic artist? And so I downloaded all of the statements for both clients, covering the entire year. Next I emailed the attached .pdf’s to broker support at Trade Station Securities. I specifically wanted to speak with a broker that could review these statements for authenticity. After 20 minutes of speaking on the phone, and another 6 hours of waiting for an answer, I got what I was looking for…the statements were in fact authentic.

Blaring Weird Sighting Number Three

Next, after confirming with the BBB and the authenticity of the brokerage statements, I then went “web scraping”. This is where I do an exhaustive google search of the company name, the principles, and look for any dirt floating or red flags floating around the internet. Surely there must be some dirt! This Rich Metzger is too squeaky clean. Finally I find some dirt. The Rip Off Report. Now I had this Rich Metzger exactly where I wanted him. The Rip Off Report! Nobody can survive a a bad write up on the Rip Off Report. And what I found out next is going to amaze you…

It turns out that the Rip Off Report actually gave Rich Metzger and My Trading Biz a reward. And certified him and his company as a “Rip Off Report Safe Business Service“. WTF! The Rip Off Rich Metzger ReviewReport actually likes this guy? Amazing. The Rip Off Report does not like anyone, anything, or any business. Its the cesspool of complaints. Once you get your own page on the Rip Off Report, you might as well change your name and move to Ecuador because your reputation as a business owner and a human being are now destroyed. No kidding folks. This is the oddest situation. Read the report My Stock Trading Biz-Rich Metzgeryourself. To make all of this stranger than fiction, The Rip Off Report even had a third party, on-site verfier visit Rich Metzger and take pictures of him.

The following is an excerpt from the Rip Off Report,

Ripoff Report’s discussions with MyStockTradingBiz have uncovered an ongoing commitment by the company to total client satisfaction. This commitment is unprecedented in the industry they serve. For one, they offer an onsite installation service where they actually travel to their customers location and perform a professional installation of the algorithms onto their customers tradestation platform. Furthermore, they provide 24/7 phone support to all customers. They are available to help ensure customers are properly trading their three algorithms. They don’t just do the install and vanish.

This is pretty impressive stuff folks. It seems like at every turn, I kept uncovering more information that kept reaffirming the honesty and legitimacy of this company.

AlgorithmicTrading.Net: The updated results for 2015

On both of the webpages, algorithimictrading.net and mystocktradingbiz.com, the performance figures for real time trading are all verified and real. But notice how there is no updated performance information for 2015? This made me suspicious and so I called and spoke with Mike Webber on the telephone. He directed me to the spreadsheet that contained the updated performance. Please view below:

AlgorithmicTrading.Net *Real Time Results 2015*

Trading DateAlgo 1Algo 2Algo 3Algo 4Algo 5Daily Results
5/3/2015-$249-$50-$513-$513$1,018-$307
4/26/2015-$1,625-$438-$519$0$0-$2,582
4/19/2015-$234-$200$537$499$0$602
4/12/2015$985-$438-$210$365$243$945
4/5/2015-$1,031$368-$60$362$0-$361
3/29/2015$1,390-$219-$519-$1,579-$150-$1,076
3/22/2015-$187$0$0$0$0-$187
3/15/2015$1,344$962$0$0-$519$1,787
3/8/2015$0-$219$0$0$593$374
3/1/2015$0$358-$1,063-$328$99-$933
2/22/2015$0$0$231-$138$0$93
2/15/2015$0$0-$288$380-$494-$401
2/8/2015$0-$71$96$446$0$471
2/1/2015-$2,624-$226-$9$0$0-$2,860
1/25/2015$1,485$0-$213$131-$494$909
1/18/2015-$218-$219$0$0$0-$437
1/11/2015$797-$219$0$0-$31$546
1/4/2015$1,516$411$0-$378$0$1,548
-$1,869

As you can see, they are in a little bit of a drawdown for 2015. Which for systematic trading, is not out of the ordinary and nothing to be concerned about. Mike explained that the draw down on the model account of $17,000 was actually close to 15%. Which again, is not a big deal. However, how do I know that Mike was not lying to me? And so I asked him. Mike then explained that as of the first of the year, the company decided to use a full service broker to execute the trades for customers. This would actually save the customer money by not having to open an account with Trade Station and avoid paying the platform fee’s. By using a full service broker, then the trades would be auto executed by someone that could “babysit” the platform each day, and make sure the trades were executed for each client properly. One of the unforeseen side effects of using the full service broker model was that the broker was actually getting better fills than the Trade Station broker.

Verifying The 2015 Results, Broker Relationship

What Mike was telling me over the phone sounded fine and good, but I wanted to speak with the actual broker assigned to execute these trades. And most importantly, I wanted to verify the authenticity of the 2015 spreadsheet. Next I called Barb Levy of The Fox Group, I wanted to know if this spreadsheet was extremely similar to what she was executing for clients. Barb Levy confirmed that she was in fact executing trades for customers of AlgortihmicTrading.Net. Barb went on to explain that she was not comfortable giving specific execution details, specific returns on accounts, and that doing so was against company policy. In speaking with Barb, I could tell that she was comfortable talking about the company, but giving specific account returns would be “crossing the line”. This was good enough for me. Brokers are notoriously tight lipped and sensitive about endorsement.

One other thing I would like to mention is that Rich Metzger negotiated a rate of $6.50 round turn for each of his referred clients. This is actually a great deal. Someone else has to babysit the trades at a very reasonable price.

Everything Looks Good, But Who Is Rich Metzger, The Phone Call

Ok, so after a long two weeks of researching, digging up information, looking for dirt, etc. I have been able to conclude that this company is real. The average return for 2014 was 99%, the average return for 2015 is currently -15%, and everything checks out thus far. But one thing I really wanted to know about is the developer. I wanted to speak with Rich Metzger on the telephone, ask him  some tough questions and find out more about him. What I discovered is that this guy is the real deal. He is an electrical engineer with an emphasis on computer science. Basically his entire career has been about designing algorithms for industrial purposes. Our conversation lasted for quite some time and I was extremely impressed. I also asked him to email a quick summary of who is he is why he started this company. I got the following response from Rich,

Graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering back in 2001 ( computer science emphasis). I’ve worked for Fortune 500 companies as a logic design engineer including Hewlett-Packard, Intel and Qualcomm until 2013 when I decided to start my own Algorithm Development Company. My expertise in algorithm development, finite state machine coding/design and advanced mathematics has made me the perfect fit for quant/mechanical trading.

As far as trading goes, I traded on the side the entire time while doing the corporate grind, mostly losing money as my emotions whipped me in and out of trades at pretty much the exact wrong time. It wasn’t until I began doing research on quant trading that I began to realize there is a better way.   I signed up with tradestation and began coding very basic algorithms and quickly started to realize the power of back-testing. The bad news was that also started the “learning phase again” quickly realizing that back-testing is only a small part of the battle.  I coded over well over 300 algorithms, almost all of which did poorly when applied to live trades. A few stood out as gems and those are what we offer to our customers today.  The white paper describes our design methodology which includes trading in liquid markets, back-testing, independent evaluations, large average gain per trade, etc.

My best advice to future developers?  Keep your algorithm as simple as possible.  The fewer the technical indicators the better (1-2 is ideal). Be honest with yourself and try to prove your algorithm wrong. Don’t get caught up in the emotions of thinking you found the holy grail, you really didn’t because it doesn’t exist. Try to find reasons why your algorithm will fail once going live and then let the chips fall where they may!

Thanks,

Richard

OK Richard, That Sounds Nice But This Annoyed Me…

One of the things that annoyed me was the presence of two web sites. MyStockTradingBiz.com contains roughly the exact same information as AlgorithmicTrading.com. And in all honesty, neither site does a very compelling job of selling the service. However, I was able to pull out a very well drafted .pdf “White Paper” which is exactly the information that you need that explains everything in great detail. I mentioned the confusion and incongruencies of both websites to Rich. He completely agreed. The original name was MyStockTradingBiz.com, which to me sounds scammy. Rich agreed and began building out AlgorithmicTrading.net, and will be shutting down the MyStockTradingBiz.com website in the near future. However, even the AlgorithimicTrading.com website is probably too rich and cumbersome for most folks. The .pdf white paper is really the meat and potatoes of the program. Its does an excellent job at describing exactly what the Algorithmic  Trading company can do for you.

QA-Products-Offered-and-Design-Methodologies-5-Algos

Wrapping Things Up

This is probably one of the most exhaustive and well researched blog posts that I have made. Considering that this is a trading system, I wanted to really make sure that every detail was fully researched, and every piece of evidence was documented and investigated. For me, I really like this trading system and am personally very close to making a decision on purchasing the system and then opening an account at Fox Trading. A lot of mental horsepower went into the creation of the algos. And I have a double extra does of confidence in knowing that everyone involved at this company also has their money trading the system. Just too many positive variables to ignore this company.

Once again, thanks for reading and don’t forget to leave any comments or questions below.

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181 Comments on "Algorithmic Trading Review"

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M173
Guest
M173
1 year 2 months ago

Why not post the statements to your site instead of only sending them to Emmet. Did customer A and customer B both die at the same exact time in November?

Nobody said you were a scam. Your just a terrible investment that no sane person should ever consider making. Even at $10/month your product isn’t a good risk/reward.

Richard
Guest
Richard
1 year 2 months ago

We are in the process of doing just that. Check back in a week or less, should have all statements posted .
Thanks!
Richard

Bob Gordon
Guest
Bob Gordon
1 year 2 months ago

Hey Emmitt I am sure Richard will give you a free license. Invest some real money with his algorithms and report your results it would be great to get your real time feedback on this excellent system! !

RV
Guest
RV
1 year 2 months ago

Has it been a week or less yet? Still waiting for you to prove m173 wrong.

-RV

RV
Guest
RV
1 year 2 months ago

So Rich,
Trying to understand how a guy so tech savvy cant seem to get these statements up. You are the one that said give me a week or less.
Please make me eat humble pie and show the proof you promised.

-RV

M173
Guest
M173
1 year 2 months ago

If he actually posted statements nobody pay him 15k for this garbage anymore. He probably signed up a couple suckers in the last 2 weeks. The guy is a master bullshitter.

Joe
Guest
Joe
1 year 3 months ago
Great review Emmett. The level of digging is most impressive! Must have been nice to write a rare positive review! It’s certainly excellent to read of the lengths Rich Metzger has gone to demonstrate his honesty which immediately gets me interested in the product. One thing left hanging in terms of his transparency on his website is the cost of the system. Is there a reason why you haven’t disclosed the cost in the review? At the very least can you tell us is it a one off payment followed by an annual fee or a monthly lease fee plus… Read more »
sam
Guest
sam
1 year 3 months ago

i’ve been following this company for a while and have also been wondering, is this real or not? I’m impressed with intense research you did.!!! The cost is very expensive though, besides for 17k capital, it cost 5k to trade 1 contract in each of their 5 algos. So that’s 22k plus just to start.thanx and good luck!!!

Gregory Reid
Guest
1 year 3 months ago

Great article, i have been looking into this company for a while and wouls like to know the cost?

M173
Guest
M173
1 year 2 months ago
I’m sorry but I’m not sure how you did any extensive research at all? A simple google search of the company would have turned up a ton if bad reviews from people losing all there money, they have multiple complaints on rip off report. Its also concerning that you consider the BBB as a legitamte source of reviews. This is one of the biggest rip offs currently available on the internet. I am not even sure how you can call this a review when you never even tried it I did try it and can tell you for a fact… Read more »
M173
Guest
M173
1 year 2 months ago

Drawdown is more like 60% since dec 2014, hence the reason the customer statement end there. Mike is lying to you and this barb person at fox group is just bullshitting you.

I hope for your sake you haven’t actually signed up for this crap.

I suggest you take down this 4.7 star review. You may indirectly cause a lot of financial pain to people.

RV
Guest
RV
1 year 2 months ago

M173,
I feel your pain. why not just remove the personal info from your statements and put an end to this once and for all? The easiest solution by far.

-RV

M173
Guest
M173
1 year 2 months ago

I’m not the one being reviewed, algorithmic trading is, why not ask the company to provide statements since they are so open and honest as the review claims. Ask for the Dec 2014 statement, it will show a 40% loss, hence the reason the statements end in Nov 2014. Total losses since November are 60-80%, I did not run this crap that whole time, I ran away in march.

RV
Guest
RV
1 year 2 months ago
M173, Well then lets see if Rich from Algorithmic trading will oblige. Rich how about it? I must say it is a bit odd that the statements ended in November 2014 especially now with such an obviously disgruntled customer. Can you please help us put this to rest by producing statements for December. That way we know if M173 was a customer with unrealistic expectations regarding inevitable drawdowns that occur with any system or if his point is valid, By responding you would very likely capture many potential clients that are “sitting on the fence” viewing this increasingly popular website.… Read more »
Sam
Guest
Sam
1 year 2 months ago
I agree with M173, you should have done a better job in research. One: you should have viewed their lived trade room for at least 3 months. You would have noticed that they started with a live account with $68K which drew down to $49K. Shortly after they switched to a simulated account of $1M that drew down to $990K. Clearly this shows they are not willing to trade their own account with live money. Two: you should have viewed the multiple negative complaints on Stockgumshoes as well as Reddit. I won’t deny that their system did work half way… Read more »
Richard
Guest
1 year 2 months ago
Just checking in here. Honestly, none of this has to be a mystery and most people are misreading our intentions. I have statements and have no problem sending them to Emmet, Both for the ES/TY and NQ Legacy package. I’ll shoot you an email. Trading involves risk as everyone knows. We put a billion disclaimers all of our website and in our sales order. With regard to recent results, the NQ legacy has actually hung in there fairly well but the ES is in a drawdown. Does that mean that algos are broken? Of course not (since drawdowns are part… Read more »
Sam
Guest
Sam
1 year 2 months ago

It’s been over a week Richard. No statements on website or here. I think it’s time to shut the business . Guess this is showing your true intentions of deception.

RV
Guest
RV
1 year 2 months ago

Emmet,
Out of curiosity, did he ever send those statements to you.?
Rich why haven’t you put up those statemnts on your site like you said you would?
Emmet, I really sense these guys just want us to go away. Have you ever done a rewrite from favorable to non favorable? Why has he not shown the statements? Or perhaps he did to you?

-RV

Richard
Guest
Richard
11 months 14 days ago

Update: Since i posted this comment back on June 10, the algos turned around as expected. July, August and now September are up quite a bit in both the ES and NQ packages.

Richard
Guest
6 months 12 days ago
Update (2/20/16): I was reviewing some of the older comments and noticed this one that i had back in June 2015, check out the time stamp to see for yourself : “… does that mean now is a good time to get in, probably but everyone needs to make that call on their own. While we can’t guarantee anything, we do feel that we will see a strong run very soon. In the past, every year we typically have 2-4 months that make up for the majority of our gains (streaks of +50% in 2 months, followed by a down… Read more »
J Bird
Guest
J Bird
1 year 2 months ago
Kemmett, I recently read your review about AlgorithimicTrading.org and was ready to invest in this system. Three Red Flags that jumped out at me after doing my own follow-up: 1. You mentioned that the cost used to be $5,000 before your review and then went up to $15,000 after your review, is really an issue with me. 2. Two days ago I emailed the company for more info. James got back with me and set up a short webinar that took about 15 minutes. He sounded very young and was uneducated as to their system and very naive as to… Read more »
Eric
Guest
Eric
1 year 2 months ago

Hi Emmett,
I have been a customer for over a year and lost a considerable amount of money on top of the steep licensing fees. I would be happy to share my statements if you would like to see them or would be happy to answer any questions.

sam
Guest
sam
1 year 2 months ago

Hi Emmet. There’s a company called trademasters usa who claim they have a robot that averages 48% month and is up over 100% this year with only 8% draw down. Have you heard of them? are they on the list to be scrutinized and reviewed?

Brian Fortin
Guest
Brian Fortin
1 year 2 months ago

Have you run those numbers Sam? If they really had a system that averages 48% per month, which would you do?

a) Invest $25k and turn it into $2,761,090.19 in ONE YEAR, or

b) Sell it to some stranger for a few thousand?

Brian Fortin
Guest
Brian Fortin
1 year 2 months ago
Too much pizzazz for me. Pretty girls on the chat window, and what’s with the Sandra Bullock look alike? Flashy Chrome and white futuristic robots (set it and forget it, lol), and a lot of hooey. They are posting hypothetical results like they live traded it. I especially liked this description of their “flagship product.” “”TMU” Automatet Trading Robot: Summer 2013 we introduced our flagship TMU trading robot to a small handselected audience. Mainly personal contacts and active traders involved during the process of fine tuning of our software. Since then we hand pick new clients and carefully select who… Read more »
sam
Guest
sam
1 year 2 months ago

I’m using the robot on a free trial on demo with ninja trader. is simulated trading with ninja trader realistic like trading real money?

Erick Strong
Guest
Erick Strong
6 months 29 days ago

Sam, did you find out anything about trademastersusa?

Eric
Guest
Eric
1 year 2 months ago

Emmett if you’ll notice the statements that were supposed to be posted a week or less after June 11 are still not posted. The weekly blog has not had an update since 5/23 because the news to report is terrible. These kind of things are typical. As for statements, I have my Decemeber statement in front of me which shows my account losing 19,000 or about 40% in one month. If anyone would like a copy please email me.

Toby
Guest
Toby
1 year 2 months ago

Just an interesting article.

http://globalslant.com/2015/06/black-box-trading-why-they-all-blow-up/

My 2 cents, stay away from algo; do it old fashion way.

Kane
Guest
Kane
1 year 1 month ago

How long has this trading site been down?

GMM
Guest
GMM
1 year 1 month ago

First post on this forum after reading lots of reviews. My take: no statements since Nov 2014 . Put a fork in this one guys, it’s done. As Bob Dylan wrote, “I don’t need a weatherman to tell me which way the wind blows.” .

For those of you who want to trade algos for a pittance of the price this guy charged–with audited trade-by-trade transparency, go to collective2.com and see if anything there is suitable for your investment criteria.

TomP
Guest
TomP
1 year 1 month ago
Hi Emmett… thank you for an absolutely top notch job at reviewing these sites. I’m looking forward to your followup review on Algorithmic… Been sitting on the fence for months now as to whether to jump into this for an auto trade system. I simply don’t have time during day to trade but would love to be able to have a system that I could check on when I want to and view the trades…and when I feel like it.. pull the plug if needed! And while somewhat disappointed over Algorithmic’s modified website, the info appears to be there if… Read more »
Richard
Guest
11 months 15 days ago

GMM,
We’ve had statements on the website for quite a while now, including the time you posted this. We have customer A/B (legacy) and customer C/D/E (ES and NQ Active trader packages v2). We’re not hiding anything, it’s all there.
Thanks,

Mike
Guest
Mike
11 months 15 days ago

Lol where are the Dec 2014 statements? 40-60% drawdowns alone that month, you even admit yourself it was 38% drawdown on es algo for that month in a stockgumshoe post.

Stop the BS. You are a fraud!!! And karma will eventually catch up to you.

richard
Guest
11 months 14 days ago
Mike, yes we had a loss in dec. Depending on how leveraged people were it could have been big. However if you add Nov and dec, it’s still a gain in that 2 month period. Those customers moved to Fox at that time and so we don’t get their statements anymore. We are not hiding a thing. 2014 was a huge year for us even with dec. Of course if someone started in dec, they had a loss right out the gate. On a side note, I am sorry that you did not have a good experience mike. I’m open… Read more »
Ashish
Guest
Ashish
11 months 24 days ago
I wanted to post my review of algorithmic trading. As I was in the process of determining whether investing in algorithmic trading was a good idea, Rich (sales) and Richard (owner) were very patient and helpful in providing pertinent information. I did not feel pushed, which was probably the reason I was able to make up my mind in a short amount of time. Once I had made up my mind, it was fairly simple to set up the account with the Fox Group. I chose the Active Trader NQ product. As for the account values, I hope that I… Read more »
richard
Guest
richard
11 months 14 days ago
I would like to give my side of the story on this thread and leave it at that. 1. No, we don’t pay people to post ANYWHERE online for us. That’s lame and (i think) illegal. People who have positive things to say usually say them to me and usually don’t post online. Our reviews page shows snipets of comments I’ve received via email/text. The BBB also shows real comments from real people who are verified by the BBB as existing customers. Our A rating also demonstrates our commitment to customer satisfaction. 2. We are not hiding anything. In fact,… Read more »
Mike
Guest
Mike
11 months 13 days ago
Once again I’d like to point out your are hiding the Dec2014 statement, so stop saying your not hiding anything. The drawdown on nq algo was over 60% in December. The majority of people have lost and left trading your shitty algos, unless they are willing to hold through a huge drawdown and deposit new funds. So no, its not just a few people, only ones up are the few people you recently fooled into signing up the last couple months. Your own statements do not show anyone being up anything for the year, unless they just started. In fact,… Read more »
richard
Guest
richard
11 months 13 days ago
The old aggressive allocation had a gain of 30% in oct, about 60% in nov, and a loss of 60 in dec 2014. Combined, that’s still a net gain of 30 in q4 of 2014. I admit, that allocation was very aggressive which is why we don’t offer that anymore. The gains were huge, but someone starting in dec would have gotten hit hard. Some people are OK with that allocation, but for many it was too aggressive. That’s why we offered three allocations. Aggressive, moderate and conservative. Most people traded the aggressive allocation. Since we moved to fox, we… Read more »
Mike
Guest
Mike
11 months 13 days ago

At least you finally admit you lost 60% in december on the nq, post that on your site and i will go away.
But bottom line is your product is not worth $50, let alone 15-20k.

Your results are not impressive and you still have huge draw drowns that will destroy most accounts even with safer allocations.

Richard
Guest
Richard
11 months 13 days ago
OK, I just pulled up the NQ Legacy package on Tradestation. It traded the O1-overnight gap, T1-burst and B1-breakout (our v1 suite) back in 2013/2014 and part of 2015. For 2014, on the hypothetical account it did: Aggressive Allocation (1 contract per 8K): Jan +10%, Feb +12%, Mar -20%, Apr +11%, May +31%, June +18%, July +18%, Aug +52%, Sep -25%, Oct +36%, Nov + 73%, Dec -61%. Total for 2014 = +156%. Moderate Allocation (1 contract per 16K): Jan +5%, Feb +6%, Mar -10%, Apr +5%, May +15%, June +9%, July +9%, Aug +26%, Sep -12%, Oct +18%, Nov… Read more »
Sam
Guest
Sam
11 months 9 days ago
Post From StockGumShoes Customer Eric. Post #47 http://www.stockgumshoe.com/2014/12/microblog-mystocktradingbiz-com/ ” Stocktrader, I have been a user since May 2014 and am down significantly over that time period. In December 2014 my account dropped from 50K to 28K in one months time. Conveniently the one month for which there are no statements provided on the site is 12/2014. That account that was once 50K is now at about 16K. You say the company doesnt try to hide anything. I have watched closely how they operate for over a year now. Things like changing the algos completely so the backtesting looks better, capping… Read more »
robert
Guest
robert
3 months 15 days ago

personally I would use a stronger adjective than ‘agressive’ to describe a loss in one month of 60% of account.

Goagal
Guest
Goagal
3 months 15 days ago

“The old aggressive allocation had a gain of 30% in oct, about 60% in nov, and a loss of 60 in dec 2014. Combined, that’s still a net gain of 30 in q4 of 2014.”

WHAT? “1.3 * 1.6 * 0.4” is equal to “0.832” , not to “1.3”.
You didn’t have a gain of 30%, YOU HAD A LOSS OF 16.8%!!!

You sell algorithms for $15K but don’t know basic math? Boy oh boy, I pity the fools who give you money.

Osikani
Guest
Osikani
3 months 15 days ago

Somewhere he claims that they do not use compounding. In which case, his math is actually right. Still, even then, “no compounding” sounds a bit strange.

Of course, if compounding, your math is the correct one.

Goagal
Guest
Goagal
3 months 15 days ago

No-compounding is the trick used by swindlers to deceive financially-illiterate people. In the financial world, the key to riches is compounding, over long periods. There’s no such thing as “no-compounding” in real life.
So I stand by my initial opinion: I pity the fools who give him their money.

Osikani
Guest
Osikani
3 months 15 days ago

I do not disagree with your opinion. In fact, I commented myself that “no compounding” sounds a bit strange. I was just commenting that the math was correct if we accept that “no compounding” is the method that he is using..

Of course, I agree with you about the effect of compounding and why it is to be used.

RV
Guest
RV
11 months 13 days ago

Richard,
Can you address the fact that you tripled the price of the algos after Emmet first reviewed your software. That was very disappointing and flat out greed driven.

-RV

richard
Guest
richard
11 months 13 days ago

We did not triple price. We charge 15k per 4 contracts traded. The 5k price only allows people to trade 1 contract and we don’t always offer that.. There is a lot of misinformation out there. During the drawdown, we lowered the price for a short period, but we’ve always charged people based on the number of contracts they trade. We do this to control how many contracts are trading the algos.

John
Guest
John
6 months 11 days ago

This is total nonsense… There is enough liquidity to address this. You only control the amount of suckers you let buy into your absurd system. You don’t have proper market training, and in fact being a so called EE does not give you any financial market credibility. These details are wholly outside the scope of your formal training. Investment banks are the only ones who provide this to recent graduates, and your resume contains nothing of the sort. Buyers BEWARE!!!

TraderTom
Guest
TraderTom
11 months 12 days ago

If we assume NQ v2 started Live in March 2015 then the results shown on the website (AlgorithmicTrading.Net) are very low.
-9% P&L for Customer C from 3/1/15 to 8/31/15
+1% P&L for Hypothetical NQ v2 from 3/1/15 to 8/31/15
Am I missing something here????

Richard
Guest
Richard
11 months 12 days ago
We actually launched the v2 algos mid-march, so we need to look at April-Sep 2015 to see only v2 on live statements (his march statement is a v1/v2 hybrid). Also, customer C is trading the NQ Active Trader package but is only trading (i think) two contracts on the NQ, as if he had a 30K account. So his % gain (as a function of his balance) will be less. The other funds are trading the ES algos (breakout/burst/onightgap) which have slightly under performed the NQ algos. Lastly, he added funds in May to take advantage of the projected rebound… Read more »
Richard
Guest
Richard
11 months 12 days ago
One more quick comment on customer C, Apr-Sep he had 4 winning months and only 2 losing months. Furthermore, his largest winning month was in July 2015 , +$7642 . His largest losing month was in June 2015, -$5158. This ratio is consistent with what we saw in 2014 trading live as well (v1 algos). While we don’t win every month, we should continue to put together more winning months than losing months, and our gains on winning months should be much larger than our losses in losing months. Put it together and I think you have some very compelling… Read more »
Tom
Guest
Tom
10 months 22 days ago

How can I get in touch with trading schools? You have an email? Want To Ask Some questions?

Nantzeet
Guest
10 months 21 days ago
I just happened upon your site and saw the comments regarding Richard Metzger’s algorithms and have to add my experience. I can go on and on about how they lead people to their website promising an average of 10-20% returns per month and how you don’t need to have any trading experience at all. I am a total novice at trading and thought this would be a great way for me to grow my retirement. I went as far as borrowing money from my bank to add to my account. I started trading the algorithms last November (2014) and since… Read more »
Pachoo5
Guest
Pachoo5
10 months 14 days ago

Emmit, you are really doing yourself a disservice by refusing to acknowledge complete scams like this site. All it does is prove to everyone that you don’t care about people’s financial welfare and total honesty about companies. Instead, all you care about is how to make the most money from this website.

The more you let companies like this off the hook, in the face of insurmountable evidence that the companies are scams, the more obvious that you yourself are full of shit.

pachoo5
Guest
pachoo5
10 months 14 days ago

BTW, your excuse that all algo systems know they will have drawdown is a completely stupid and obvious bullshit excuse. Yeah, algo systems know they will have draw downs but we are talking 8 to 12% max. This fucking company has had draw downs over 50% in one MONTH! Do you seriously think that is NORMAL????

Zakk
Guest
Zakk
10 months 14 days ago

Thanks for doing the review. I would appreciate an update as well. I have been considering the algorithmictrading service and have talked to Brian who has done a promotional video for the company.

Mike
Guest
Mike
10 months 13 days ago
The #1 reason and the only reason you need to not sign up for this crap is it’s 100% NON-REFUNDABLE You will be in the red 15-17k (whatever he can get from you) from the first day you start trading and still have the risk of losing an ADDITIONAL 40-60% of your $ in 1-2 months. How would anyone would consider this a wise investment??? If your really interested in automated trading check out emmets last review on brokers or check out other services. There are a ton of options out their with better performance for a fraction of the… Read more »
Zakk
Guest
Zakk
10 months 13 days ago

I’ve heard nothing but good things about it so far. I’m not discrediting your experience by any means, however. They seem very transparent about their drawdown months, but seem to recover big time in the months that follow. It seems like a shaky investment short-term, but in the long run the results seem very good. Like I said, I’m still investigating and trying to get as much information as possible. Emmett seems very unbiased and so far has positive things to say. Looking forward to a follow-up review here.

Mike
Guest
Mike
10 months 13 days ago
Sounds like your about to fall for their marketing sales gimick too. There are a ton of negative reviews on the internet on them including this comment thread, so not sure how you’ve heard only good things. Send me your Skype and I’ll send you the system that’s 90% cheaper with better performance. Or look around on your own their are lots with refund options and monthly payment options If this product was priced accordingly, which I think should be maybe $25/month and had a refund option then their would be a problem. But they are spending a fortune on… Read more »
Miguel
Guest
Miguel
10 months 13 days ago
Mike “Send me your Skype and I’ll send you the system that’s 90% cheaper with better performance. Or look around on your own their are lots with refund options and monthly payment options If this product was priced accordingly, which I think should be maybe $25/month and had a refund option then their would be a problem. But they are spending a fortune on advertising to naiive people who are losing their savings with them. Don’t be one of those people.” What are those other options? What are you trading? What sort of capital are we talking about? It’s all… Read more »
JS
Guest
JS
9 months 8 days ago

Hi Mike
Can you email me what your system is that you mention in your post? My email is bushbuckj at hotmail dot com. Much appreciated.

rickyb
Guest
10 months 13 days ago
I am a customer of Algorithmic trading. You can’t make everyone happy all the time but they have made me happy. Things have changed since this was written. The Trade Station Platform is no good and they have changed to Gain Capital Corp who executes the trades. Fox Group in Chicago oversees Gain to keep them in check and watches for slippage. I remember when I started and it was Tuesday night when it went live. I got an e-mail – automatically generated that there had been two trades intiated. The algos ran all night automatically and got out about… Read more »
Zakk
Guest
Zakk
10 months 12 days ago

Thanks for the reply, Ricky. I appreciate the candid information. While I respect that you don’t want to come out with too much information about your account I would be curious to know more: you can reach me at intoinfinity7NOSPAM@gmailNOSPAM.com thank you.

Gregory Reid
Guest
Gregory Reid
10 months 1 day ago

Hello, i would like to know more also. novadolla@gmail.com

Alex
Guest
Alex
9 months 12 days ago

Kinda concerning that you are excited about their BBB rating. You realize BBB is a private company that you can ‘pay’ off to be re-reviewed a little more favorably.

Parker King
Guest
Parker King
9 months 10 days ago

Now I know tradingschools.org is a sham. Google ad for algorithmictrading.net says 8.68% per month since 2003. Here we even have the owner of the site admitting otherwise. Anyone who knows scams knows the BBB and ripoffreport mean absolutely nothing because they are both easily paid off.

Jeff
Guest
Jeff
8 months 18 days ago

Any others (who have not posted already) who could describe their experience so far with the program?

ghd
Guest
ghd
8 months 17 days ago

looks like they are not posing November results on line as it was a wash.

Results not very impressive for having to tie up as much money. Suggest you visit C2 (Collective) and study that for a while. There are some gems in there and much better,

Cool
Guest
Cool
8 months 17 days ago

The algo lost at least 10% for Dec 2015.

GHD
Guest
GHD
8 months 16 days ago

I had been away from the market and in returning I wanted to investigate algos and autotrades as a way to keep me from overtrading. This group seemed sincere and the returns, yet not great, were at least positive. But I kept hearing “drawdown!”

Then the rep told me the entrance fee, $15,000, and I could not control my outburst and then there was the $15,000 to trade ONE unit overnight five different ways. $30,000 for very slight returns and now another minus 10%?

Be careful out there my friends1

Jeff
Guest
Jeff
8 months 16 days ago

Every system has drawdowns. As Emmett says, it’s part and parcel to any trading system. It seems to come back from them extremely well. Just rockets out of them.

John
Guest
John
8 months 15 days ago

I purchased these at full price and experienced huge drawdown. If you want to buy them for 1/2 what I paid please let me know. I don’t trust them.

Jeff
Guest
Jeff
8 months 14 days ago

John,

How long have been a customer? When did you start?

raj
Guest
raj
8 months 10 days ago

emmette! Your reviews are good!
please review prop trading system like mes capital / blue point trading. Please tell us how legitimate this firms are. Please give the second part review of TOPSTEPTRADER.

thanks

Mike
Guest
Mike
8 months 9 days ago

People still signing up for this crap? The huge drawdowns, tons of negative reviews, mediocre returns, and ridiculous cost aren’t enough to convince you to avoid? The only person who has made $ off this thing is the owner of the website. And most likely he’s made 7 figures. He has made ZERO from trading!

GHD
Guest
GHD
8 months 9 days ago

Precisely correct.

Jim
Guest
Jim
8 months 9 days ago

I’ve heard most of the long-term customers are happy with this system. The service had a 60% run this year for a couple of months. I think a lot depends on when you get in. Some people on here got in during a drawdown month and didn’t stick it out.

FrankGr
Guest
FrankGr
7 months 13 days ago
The problem is this: if you get in on a major drawdown (having already paid through the butt for the service), you’ve got a huge problem on your hands. Homelessness is tough. Current market conditions are highly volatile, certainly not the kinds of conditions where you want to turn your money over to a machine that has only the amount of “intuition” that the programmer has managed to instill, while you yourself have as much intuition as you are capable of, and willing to develop. It might be a long time before prevailing market conditions can be handled properly with… Read more »
JJackson
Guest
JJackson
7 months 28 days ago

Nice research Emmett. I am convinced that this company algorithmic software is the real deal.

Jeff
Guest
Jeff
7 months 20 days ago

Any more experiences? Good or bad? Seems like a great company, just a bit costly.

James
Guest
James
7 months 9 days ago

How much does this system cost if you want to trade say a 35k account? Thanks.

Kieran
Guest
Kieran
6 months 27 days ago

It’s quite a lot. It costs about 1/2 – 1/3 of your account. 15k account costs 5k and 30k account costs 15k. So, yeah quite a large portion of your account value…Anyone else have any experience with this company?

Mike
Guest
Mike
6 months 25 days ago

All the negative experiences above and elsewhere not enough for you?

James
Guest
James
6 months 17 days ago

The reviews on BBB looks good to me.

tradernva
Guest
tradernva
6 months 15 days ago
Algorithmictrading.com sounds great, but the fact that I’m still on the fence bothers me. If this trading platform works as advertised, then would it be that far fetched to consider it priceless? In theory, a successful algorithmic trading platform would be priceless to the owner of that platform, as well as to any potential buyers of that same platform. In a previous thread listed above, the owner, Richard, mentioned that they have about 100 people trading this algorithm. Really? Only 100 customers for a product/service that can be interpreted as priceless? Something doesn’t smell right. Screaming Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme… Read more »
Clint
Guest
Clint
6 months 14 days ago
You should wait a long time indeed… The client statements listed on their website took 8 months to get up to a total of about -15% loss in net total. This client is not yet profitable but could be over enough time (If nothing changes). You are uncomfortable because the service is WAY the hell overpriced for the amount of risk it takes on… Just walk on and forget it. You will be glad you did… Any temptation you are feeling is emotional only and not based on fact. Nice guys or not, they are selling massive amounts of bullshit… Read more »
Rob B
Member
Rob B
6 months 14 days ago
I am sorry but I do not care how many stars Emmett gives this algo. Do you really think someone is selling their profitable Trading Algo? Where do you think he makes his money from live trading of this algo or from selling his algo? You ask where are the profitable trades. I say think Occam’s razor for your answer. Everyone I know that has bought an algo, it made money until the day they bought it. Then it just went down down and down. I am sorry, I am negative. You go ahead and buy and post the results… Read more »
sam
Guest
sam
6 months 12 days ago
Unfortunately in face of the review rating, it sounds like a poor investment to me. The “cons” are rightly reviewed as too high. The business seems to be well credentialed as well as the manager. But that’s about it. The results after over a year seem barely marginal. Comparable to a site such as “legacy” Netpicks” with their seven summits algo. Maybe rich folks are better off investing in a real hedge fund that uses algos. I hear you RobB. An algo or Forex EA seems to “work” according to the advertising until a retailer starts to use it. I’m… Read more »
Clinton
Guest
Clinton
6 months 14 days ago

OK just had to look a little closer after reading this… Richard Metzger is an EE???
My brother is an EE also. Richard Metzger is shown as age 31? 2016-31 means born in 1985. This means he graduated university at age 16 with a BS in EE. Must have started at age 12 or so… Worked for all those companies too… Well whatever… Lets all give him a high fiver… And for those of you who have paid him and about to pay him. We Italians have a name for you…

Richard
Guest
6 months 12 days ago
It’s been quite a while since I visited the messages and just wanted to provide a few comments. My Age: No I am not 31. I’m not sure where that’s posted but it’s wrong. I’m actually in my early forties. Yes, I do have a B.S.E.E and worked at the companies quoted. After graduating high-school in 1992, I served honorably in the military for four years (Infantry- Airborne), went to college on the GI Bill, graduated with a B.S.E.E, worked in corporate America for 10 years as a logic design engineer, then started my own algorithm development company. I have… Read more »
Mike
Guest
Mike
6 months 11 days ago

LOL at your 5% complaint rate, most people have lost with your shitty algos and moved on. Not everyone goes on a online review site to vent. Anyone who bought your shitty algos in the last 2 years has not made anything, especially when they factor in the expenses. These are the facts. REAL former Algo using idiot speaking here. If you have an extra 20-25k this is NOT the place to invest!!!!!!!!!!

Mike
Guest
Mike
6 months 11 days ago

Poor customer F is down 10-15k when you factor in what he/she paid for the shitty algos, and he will be down over 20k again after the next drawdown. There’s better retail algos available for 50/month if that’s what you want to invest in.

Rob B
Member
Rob B
6 months 11 days ago
I guess I fall into that skeptical category. In fairness to you, I am skeptical of all bots not just yours, I would not use one and I will state why. First most bots being sold only show back tested results. That is a complete joke. As someone that did data analysis for years (I too have a BSEE degree) I can data mine any data and make a nice curve fit past data, but predicting the future is another story. And when I go to your site where the performance results are shown it states the following: “The table… Read more »
Stray Dog
Guest
Stray Dog
6 months 10 days ago

I too fall into the category that believes “bots are BS.” But Richard, you have a very easy way to make Mike and Rob B eat crow. Open a $15,000 live account, trade it with your bot and post the brokerage statements. Let’s say 6 months of brokerage statements to prove the worth of the algo. If you don’t take up Rob B’s challenge then you can’t expect anyone here to believe your claims.

Clint
Guest
Clint
6 months 10 days ago

WOW! Well said on those posts. Lets get real and forget the “simulated account” nonsense… Open a new account and post the results AND lets factor in all costs for trading, buying algo’s, annual fee’s AND TAXES if there are any real profits… When all is said and done, I suspect these algo’s will be toast. Likely that it would be better to have your money in brown paper sack.

Richard
Guest
6 months 10 days ago
I can do even better, in fact we have done better. They are located here for anyone to see: http://algorithmictrading.net/active-trader-nq-package/ (once you are at this page, scroll down to see them) This account started with about 16K and as of 20 Feb 2016, it has made $7,461 (about 49%). The website isn’t updated with feb results yet, since the month is not over. This account statement is exactly what you are asking for. It ONLY trades the NQ Active (v2) and has traded 1 contract the entire time, on all five algos. It’s our “base” account we use to track… Read more »
Mark
Guest
Mark
6 months 4 days ago
No need to review live trades… Several things are at issue here. Theoretical accounts don’t matter except for testing. We need actual ongoing customer accounts which take ALL FEE’s and costs into play. There are two fatal flaws in this system. These two flaws will show up over the long term and will not manifest overnight. In addition, the language use of the word “drawdown” is totally amateurish… Call it what it really is, its a LOSS period. I have no doubt the the developers and team are earnest, and trying to be honest about the system. This does NOT… Read more »
JP
Guest
JP
5 months 12 days ago
Emmett, You don’t have a large enough sample size from various customers to be giving these guys all these high marks..(Stars)… I beg you to reconsider your endorsement here. You are going to cause more damage than good! I talked to these guys on the phone and a guy named “Rich” the salesman claimed to have been trading his own money with this guy. If this were true and IF he was having stellar results why would salesman “Rich” not post all of his own statements from day one???!?! This would be a salesman’s best advertising! I also noticed that… Read more »
Trading Transparency
Guest
Trading Transparency
4 months 3 days ago
Important Update. Richard-developer recently emailed all former and current users of his NQ/ES packages sold, and basically recommended switching to his new algo’s–stating the S&P Crusher package would like do better. Emmett, I wonder what you think of this. This might be a major red flag. I think Richard is actually meaning well: actually offering former customers to switch to the new alga’s with no charge. But, why? Of course, Richard provides detailed information that he is not a financial advisor and cannot recommend specific advise: but, reading between the lines: it was suggested that customers strongly consider his new… Read more »
Pekelo
Guest
3 months 15 days ago
Just looked them up with their recent performance. They have 4 products, and I picked NQ Active Trader, because it has a 1 year Live performance displayed, showing return of 30%. (4.2K on a 15K account) That sounds good, but the advertised return based on back testing is 104%. That is quite a bit of a difference, and why would you use a backtesing result when you have actual Live trading performance??? Oh, because that shows 3 times more return, that is why. I am not sure what their cost is, Emmett says they are expensive. This only works if… Read more »
Pekelo
Guest
3 months 15 days ago
After reading some of the posts here, Richard says about the price: 5K for 1 contract traded, 15K for 4 contracts. Well, if I only traded 1 contract, the price of the system killed all the profits for the last 12 months (NQ Active Trader) and I would end up with -$800 in the red. And trading 4 contracts on a 60K account after subtracting the cost of 15K gives a 16.8-15=1.8K profit or 3% instead of the advertised 104%. What is a 100% difference between friends? Bottom line is, if a system is very expensive, you definitely have to… Read more »
Goagal
Guest
Goagal
3 months 15 days ago

What is “100% difference”, you ask? In my book it’s called “fraud”.

Pekelo
Guest
3 months 13 days ago

It was a joke, but the difference was between backtested results and real results minus subscription fee.

Osikani
Guest
Osikani
3 months 13 days ago
To me, the only purpose of a backtest, is to find out if a strategy would have made money, if we had perfect knowledge of the future. Backtest is the only situation in which we always know what happened after the trade entry. If the backtest cannot make a profit, then for me, there is then no point in testing forward on live data. IOW, I use backtesting to eliminate those strategies that sounded like a good idea when I first formulated them, but that prove to be a dud, even when I am essentially curve-fitting. In my experience, most… Read more »
Rob B
Guest
Rob B
3 months 15 days ago

For the life of me I cannot imagine trading another person’s algorithm. First I would wonder why he is not selling it to a hedge fund for a billion dollars being they can not make a 30% return. But more important what happens during draw downs and you are down 30%. Are you going to continue taking trades based on an algorithm you know nothing about?

I guess it is a personality thing, but I would never be interested in this. To each there own.

Osikani
Guest
Osikani
3 months 15 days ago
Come on, be realistic. Hedge Funds have a remarkable arrogance about all the Math and CS Ph. D’s that they have in their quant department. Someone with only a BS cannot even get in the door to speak to a janitor, let alone the person who negotiates with vendors of any kind. Now, on the other hand, if one of their broker contacts were to tell them about some autotrader that is killing it …. Of course, being the cynic that I am I am inclined to believe that in that case they would rather bribe the broker for the… Read more »
Rob B
Guest
Rob B
3 months 15 days ago
If you can show investors you can make 30% return year after year they will be knocking down your door. Bernie Madoff only showed 10% or so. Heck you can even start your own mutual fund or hedge fund and get tracked. Yes you have to do some work to do that. You could even start a newsletter and be tracked by Hulbert. All these mutual funds, hedge funds and CTAs performance are publicly available. Have you seen their returns? They are horrible. I know people think that day trading is some miracle where you will make incredible returns, but… Read more »
Rob B
Guest
Rob B
3 months 15 days ago

I will add one more thing. Many of these con artist trading room have started private hedge funds and guess what when they had to actually place real trades they just lost money. For a classic one look at good old Larry Williams.

Osikani
Guest
Osikani
3 months 15 days ago

Well, speculating in commodities is tough. Even the real ones blew some up. After he ended the spectacularly successful Turtle Traders experiment, even Richard Dennis blew up one of his funds.

And yes, at this time, it is almost certain that Larry Williams got lucky in winning his championship, as he seems to have never been able to come close to even 20% of those returns any time later.

Pekelo
Guest
3 months 13 days ago

Then luck must be running in the Williams family because his daughter also won the trading championship…

Osikani
Guest
Osikani
3 months 13 days ago

Yes, I know that she did. And has she been able to duplicate that performance or even a fraction of it since? Just like her father, no.

Of course, maybe they are the most skilled traders on earth, who just happen to be in a more than a decade long drawdown?

Osikani
Guest
Osikani
3 months 15 days ago
I understand and agree with all your points in this comment, but maybe I was unclear in my comment. I was really only commenting about your comment: “First I would wonder why he is not selling it to a hedge fund …” and how it is not that easy to get in to meet the decision maker at a hedge fund. I was not really commenting at all about the returns of his Algo. All the things that you have stated are ways that would get the attention of some hedge fund. The method that he is using, essentially backdooring… Read more »
Rob B
Guest
Rob B
3 months 14 days ago

Osikani you clearly understand the real world of investing unlike so many others. For the record I was only using the returns stated by the poster who this sub thread was in response to. I seriously doubt he is doing 30% returns. I would love to see Emmett post continued updated returns via real broker statements or using the robot so we could see his real returns.

robert
Guest
robert
3 months 14 days ago

I think this service should be reviewed again. looks very shady.

Guest
Guest
Guest
1 month 23 days ago
Again–Richard & Emmet? why not respond to the fact that Richard has recommended and stated to former customers that the NQ trading system he promoted and sold for years is not likely to really be beneficial? Why Richard, did you email clients to really consider and basically recommend to stop the NQ strategy. Why?? I am former legacy customer that has decided to move on. I did very good in the early days–when there were huge gap ups overnight and that is essentially how it made it so much $$. Market was just going straight up and this system did… Read more »
tracy bullis
Guest
tracy bullis
1 month 17 days ago

Thought-provoking comments . I am thankful for the insight , Does anyone know if my company would be able to obtain a template IRS 13614-C document to use ?

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