Today’s review is Avenge Trading and Avenge Trading Software
What is Avenge Trading and Avenge Trading Software? Avenge Trading Software is a trading signal software that operates as an indicator add on for the ensign trading platform. Avenge Trading is a day trading room that displays and trades the software that potential customers as well as paying customers may watch and trade along with the room moderator.
Just how much is your trading applications as well as the trading area? The entire price of the trading applications is 25,000. Yes, you’re reading this properly, $25,000 for the applications and $2,500 per month to attend the trading area. But there’s a financing program where a client may made a deposit of $7,500 and then 60 days afterwards, so as to maintain the software operational another payment of $7,500 has to be made, then 30 days after a different payment of $7,500, then 30 days after the following charge of $7,500 is necessary.
If someone requires extra training, following the $30,000 in total obligations, then further training comes at a cost of $2,500 a month. There’s not any refund.
If you’re like me, then you’re pretty bowled in the purchase price of this program and trading area. Of each the trading rooms which I reviewed and attended, I have never noticed a trading merchandise provided at this high price. And believing that this item is the maximum cost of each trading merchandise on the world wide web, I guessed that I need to employ an excess layer of evaluation to the item.
A Closer Look at Avenge Trading Software
A quick look at Avenge Trading on Archive.Org shows that the company has been around for a short period of time. I can only find several months worth of website updates. It appears that the website was built about one year ago. The Avenge Trading domain name was registered about 16 months ago, and the registration name is not disclosed. In addition to the registration name being hidden, there is also no mention of whom actually owns Avenge Trading on the official website. I found that the lack of disclosure of whom is behind this company particularly odd, especially considering the hefty price tag. I certainly would never give an unnamed person $25,000 and $2,500 each month unless I was absolutely sure of whom this person or people are.
One more thing which I discovered both exciting and worrisome is the front page of this Avenge Trading Website is the proclamation that the trading applications had created a total of 657 complete ES points for the entire year of 2014. To put it differently, if someone were to exchange just 1 contract, then the entire profit could be 657 X 50 for a entire benefit of $32,850. The business states that in case you would like to earn more, simply exchange more contracts to get more earnings. The announcement I could earn more by trading more trades is unquestionably accurate, however the significant question is what would I must give up for all those extra yields? The site makes no mention of likely draw down or drawback. In me, someone really picked up the telephone. A trading seller that really picks up the telephone is an extreme rarity, I was amazed.
Following a short conversation with the client rep, Brandon, he encouraged me to attend the daily routine that shows all of trades being implemented from the trading area moderators.
The Trading Room Experience
From the week of Monday, July 6th through Friday, July 10th I attended each trading room session. The trading room lasted an average of two hours each day. For week number one, I recorded approximately 13 hours of screen recordings. After my free, one week trial of the trading room ended, I then signed up using a another name, IP address, and email address. I then attended another three days of the live trading room. In total, I recorded 20 hours of screen recordings.
What do you see inside of the trading room? Inside of the trading room, a viewer will see a series of charts. The left most chart is a ten minute time frame, and then as you move to the right side of the screen, the resolution begins to drill down to a 317 tick time frame. The following picture is how the trading room is laid out:
Generally speaking, I would say that layout is pretty well organized. I also received some supporting documentation from Melissa, that gave a description for each of the charts. There was also a handy video that took the time to explain what each section means and how they relate to each other. You can watch the video here:
No Trading DOM
Once of those things from the trading area which I discovered upsetting was that there wasn’t a trading dom displayed live on the monitor. Since the cost moved in the direction of the profit goal, then afterwards kissed the limitation price, we then advised that we were currently from this transaction with the gain goal. In case you’ve spent reading my previous reviews, you then understand that I’m a jerk concerning trading rooms which use limit order exists and entry. Why? Because obtaining a fill in a limit price for a purchase or a market is quite hard. Occasionally a cost can kiss the limit purchase cost many, many occasions and never really fill the purchase price. Newbies of course don’t have any clue what I am talking about, and they wrongly think they can replicate the orders they are seeing on the display, but the real-world reality is something completely different.
On the other hand, the 5 minute, the three min, and the tick graphs were quicker moving transactions. I’d guesstimate that about the 5 minutes and the three min, a dealer has roughly a 50/50 shot at precise replication of what the program is displaying. The tick graph? Not a Opportunity. The market moved far too quickly and these transactions have almost zero possibility of replication. See these videos and ask yourself whether you believe these transactions have been presented in this fashion where replication is an opportunity?
Why Does Replication Matter?
Replication matters because when we make a purchase of trading software or a trading room, part of our decision process is evaluating prior results and effective replication. And I am not talking hypothetical, or simulated results, I am talking about about being able to replicate somewhere close to the signals that are being projected onto the screen, by the software or the moderator. Granted, it would be unrealistic to expect that we would be able to copy all trades exactly, but for a price of $25k, we need to be damn sure that we stand a hell of a good chance of replicating the majority of the trades.
The moderator was never able to show, with a live trading DOM present, that he was able to actually fill any of these limit orders. I was frustrated by this. The more I attended the trading room, the more frustrated I became because I simply could not replicate the signals on my own trading software.
Calling Avenge Trading About The Reported Results
After becoming frustrated with not being able to replicate the trades, I decided that if a live moderator could replicate the trades with a real money account, then perhaps with practice I could also replicate the trades. And so I called the toll free number once again and asked Brandon if he could send me over the real time performance of the trading moderators in the trading room. Brandon was cordial and emailed me the following PDF documents that give a detailed performance of each trade called live in the room. He sent me the following, which supposedly represents all of the trades for the entire year of 2014, as well February 2015 until present:
If you have a glance at that, you’re probably somewhat confused by all the amounts and small boxes. I was. He agreed to let me record all discussions associated with his or her company. Since our conversation had been happening over state lines, I had singular permission so as to record any dialog. A phone call has a reasonable expectation of solitude before I could record any conversation, I had to ensure a company representative could agree. My very first, and most significant question was associated with the amounts reported in the dictionary. Especially, I wanted to understand if those were actual time transactions, implemented in a genuine brokerage announcement, Brandon verified that each and every transaction proved to be a live commerce. Brandon reported that I had to talk with the trading area moderators and they might or might not release this info.
Brandon then urge I have a conversation using the trading area moderators. I consented. And that I told Brandon that because I had been spending $25,000 because of his trading merchandise, that I had to be extra cautious and verify each detail. He concurred. Before I finished the telephone, I asked Brandon because of his name. He refused.
Speaking With The Room Moderator
At the end of my 20+ minute, heated conversation with Darren the Lawyer, I walked away feeling like he wasn’t such a bad guy. Anyone else would of simply hung up on me. I called him a scoundrel, scammer, and bunch of other fun words, but he just kept trying to convince me that his software is the real deal. In my opinion, he really believes his software is a good product. But Darren is certainly no market professional, or computer geek.
Plenty Of Red Flags
Looking at these guys in its entirety, and from a distance, there are several red flags:
- They wont reveal whom they are.
- They wont display a trading DOM in real time.
- There are no account statements that prove performance.
- There is no information on whom developed these trading indicators.
- The trades in the trading room were not clearly given.
- The scalp trades cannot be replicated in real time market conditions.
A Few White Flags
They also have a few positives:
- Excellent customer support, they answer the phone and quickly respond to email inquiry.
- The signals from the longer time frames were reliable.
- Lawyer Darren, in spite of my badgering and hateful remarks kept calm and tried his best to help me.
- The company is very, very serious about marketing. Which is a good thing.
At the end of the day, at $25k…the product needs to be completely devoid of any red flags. This is the most expensive trading product I have ever seen. And the higher cost demands a higher level of scrutiny. Is Avenge Trading a scam? I dont think so. In fact, I think they might have something positive to offer. However, they need to prove it not only to the audience, but also to themselves. They need to either trade with a live money account, or at the very least trade with a simulated DOM present on the screen. My personal opinion, is that the tick scalping and the 3 minute charts will need to be removed from their program. They are simply unrealistic. However, the 10 minute and the 5 minute do have some potential.
Avenge Trading is currently spending a great deal of money on marketing. And I want to give them credit for this. They made the investment in two separate one hour radio shows, that are scripted sales presentations for sure, but the investment shows commitment to their product. They also spent a great deal of money on a Michael Medved radio infomercial, which I am sure cost big bucks to produce. In addition to these radio infomercials, they have also produced some well constructed sales videos. A little cheesy, but shows good effort.
In addition to the radio and video production, I checked Google ads inventory and they are probably spending $500 each day in Google ads. Not a small sum of money. Some of you reading this might be suspicious of all of the advertising, professional production, and slick marketing. However, I see this as a positive. They honestly feel like their trading product is ready for prime time, they feel like they have a product that can withstand serious scrutiny and that the risk of advertising costs will be borne out through the gains in sales. Its interesting for sure.
For What It’s Worth
I got a telephone call from Brandon and he started a 3 way conversation with all the trading area moderator. He explained that his name was Darren and he had been an lawyer. I discovered this an extremely embarrassing situation, he needs me to give him $25,000 and $2,500 per month, and he isn’t going to even give me his name. It was embarrassing. Luckily, Brandon had agreed to the recording of this dialogue, and I managed to catch the embarrassing moment in all of its brilliance and weirdness.
I asked Darren when the transactions in the dictionary were real trades taken at a true account. He affirmed that each the transactions were actual. Begrudgingly he relented and said that the transactions were a blend of both simulated and real. I believed getting him to acknowledge the fact took a herculean effort.
Once I obtained Darren that the attorney to acknowledge the spreadsheets weren’t really real trading, I attempted to determine whom really owned this provider. Everything is nicely concealed. Nobody in the business will utilize a previous name, the domain name registration is concealed, all my questions regarding possession were rebuffed. The dialogue was a clumsy and indelicate dance of Darren the Lawyer attempting to convince me that his companion was to get real, and me trying to push him to admitting the facts in addition to grab him in a lie. Since I’d agree to record the dialogue, I felt as though I needed to actually open the throttle up on the bad man and begin calling him bad names. Not too much because I believed that he was a bad man, but since I wished to see his response.
My opinion is not worth much, however if I were running the Avenge Trading Software company, I would start investing in more transparency. Who in the heck is going to give you $25k if you wont even give your last name? And why not just go ahead and trade with a DOM on the screen? This is 2015, not 2005 when trading rooms could get away with that nonsense. Nowadays, all of the legit vendors are all trading with a DOM on the screen. And if you are trading with a simulator, just admit it. And if you are going to start emailing out performance reports, then stop saying that the trades are real, when they are not real. Not even close to being real.
I have a feeling that I am going to be hearing from these Avenge guys again. And with the level of investment they are making, I do believe that they could deliver a good product. It is my sincere hope that I can come back in a few months and write a new review, a highly positive review that recommends the product.
That’s if for today. Yet another room that didn’t get a bunch of shiny gold stars. If you read this far, then you are a champ and I certainly appreciate your vigor and enthusiasm in what is mostly a depressing endeavor. Don’t forget to leave your comments below. Especially the haters, and the trolls, I like you guys the most.